Do police rely too heavily on Tasers? Fri, June 19, 2009
Robert Dziekanski’s mother has filed a lawsuit alleging excessive force and “cruel and unusual” treatment by the four RCMP officers who stunned her son with a Taser.
I am quite certain that will be something that will happen.
And the Polish government having the luxery of now knowing of all the lies and misleading statements, and the obvious cover up, are already putting together their case to prosecute these 4 cops
wayne says the fact the cops piled on top of this man, face down after being tazered 5 times also could have led to Roberts death.
NO KIDDING wayne?
You are TOOOO much wayne
EH?
You figured that out all by your self did you?
tweetypie, 2009-03-04 15:32:52
twitpie your an idiot
You play dumb whene ever someone answers your questions and show how stupid you are.
Brigand - don't see any cops enjoying themselves in the video, in fact i find them quite serious. Their toys aren't new. They don't like to use them, in fact they would rather not use any weapons or force at all. They would not like to have anyone break the peace or the law, unfortunatley people do, like this man which was why they were called in the first place.
If you read the autopsy report, many medical factors other than the tazor led to this mans death, the tazor just increased the odds that they would be fatal.
In fact his conditions could have also been aggrevated to a death level if he would have resisted physically being restrained like when four cops tackle an unwilling suspect and hold him down while he fights being handcuffed.
Oh somewhat like what happened in hamilton last year when two canadian tire employees tackled a shoplifter and held him until police arrived. He died and no tazor was involved, just the same medical conditions listed by this poor sole.
wayne, 2009-03-04 13:34:13
Simply Shameful
APPALLING TESTIMONY
"The public gallery now is laughing in disbelief at the RCMP version of events the night Robert Dziekanski was Tasered and died at Vancouver International Airport.
Const. Kwesi Millington, 32, became the third officer Monday to acknowledge his notes, his statements and the report he was required to make after deploying the conducted energy weapon were riddled with errors.
He admitted at the public inquiry into the tragedy that you would have a "distorted view" of the incident if you read his accounts as opposed to viewing an amateur video that captured what happened Oct. 14, 2007.
Millington didn't even get right the number of times he zapped the 40-year-old Polish immigrant with the conducted energy weapon.
After watching the video of Dziekanski screaming in agony, collapsing to the floor writhing in pain, Millington maintained he was justified in jolting him -- again, again, again and again.
The Mountie, who is six-feet-one inch, 205 pounds -- about four inches taller and 30 pounds heavier than Dziekanski -- insisted throughout that he was scared for himself and the safety of his colleagues.
This was the first and only time he has ever used the device.
Like the others, he wore a Kevlar vest, carried a firearm, a baton and pepper spray. Nevertheless, he thought Dziekanski was dangerous.
"He had the stapler open, his other fist raised; he was in a combative stance as we call it, and was approaching the officers, I believe with the intent to attack so I deployed the Taser," Millington said.
"I thought he was going to attack. I acted to stop the threat."
It was an appalling performance by a professional police officer and sparked chortles and guffaws from some in the audience.
Even commission counsel Art Vertlieb seemed incredulous.
Millington is the third of the four RCMP officers who confronted Dziekanski to testify and each has recited a near identical story using similar language that has been shown to be misleading on the same key points.
After the incident, the three were sent to the detachment office where they spent time together without any other officer present before being questioned by investigators looking into Dziekanski's death.
They also got together for a critical incident debriefing Oct. 27, about a fortnight before the video was made public.
Millington, though, said he and the others have not discussed what happened nor did they compare stories before testifying."
"A police officer's notes and his or her ability to clearly remember details of events under pressure are cornerstones of our criminal justice system. Every day, Mounties get up in courtrooms across this country, rely on their notebooks and are granted a degree of credibility not accorded ordinary witnesses.
The testimony of the three officers at this inquiry so far seriously undermines public confidence in that foundation and the reputation of the force.
They have been exposed not for making minor errors in perspective, but for offering worryingly identical and badly distorted views of what occurred.
We expect much, much more from police officers.
His colleagues who testified earlier -- Const. Bill Bentley and Const. Gerry Rundel -- made similar fundamental mistakes in their notes and statements.
In each case, the errors were around critical facts supporting their use of force.
No wonder some in the public gallery were struggling to suppress sniggers. But this is no laughing matter.
The officers maintain they haven't discussed the events with each other, even though they were allowed to return and spend time together at the detachment after the Tasering. As well, two weeks later, they met for a so-called "critical incident debriefing."
"We still haven't heard from the most senior officer involved -- Cpl. Benjamin (Monty) Robinson, who since the Tasering has been charged with drunk driving over an accident in which a motorcyclist died.
Maybe he reported the events around Dziekanski's death more accurately
For the RCMP's sake, I hope so."
Well Monty has already done a good job lieing in his drunk driving case, so I wouldnt expect much truth from him in this inquiry
EH?
tweetypie, 2009-03-04 12:51:59
Astonishing is how cop #3's testimony from yesterday was described.
He said never once did the 4 of them discuss among each other what had happened. Not while they stood around refusing to help Robert as he lay dieing. And not at the two get togethers they had later.
When asked how come all 3 cops who have testified all said Robert had to be wrestled to the ground because he didnt go down after 3 blasts,when in fact he went down on his own after the first shot. he responded..I DONT KNOW
I Cant see this guy CONtinuing as a cop as he is being totally ridiculed in the Van papers and laughed at by the people in the gallery for saying he was afraid
And to think the police enquiry using the lies these cops told,decided no charges would come against them
EH?
tweetypie, 2009-03-04 09:26:03
I certainly do get it Wayne.Mr.Dziekanski was just a victim which the cops could watch with fascination at what their new toy could do.Certainly humans beings tasered don't grab for police weapons.They are in extreme pain and sometimes just dying.This bunch are just despicable as are those who defend them.A potential terrorist indeed.With an office stapler ?????????????? Luckily the Polish govt. is really taking note on how Canada treated one of Poland's citizens who was only interested in joining his mother.Hopefully we will see civil suites here that send a message that the public won't tolerate this kind of police brutality.
Brigand, 2009-03-04 09:12:50
You are strange wayne.
You say..
"They took the camera because they felt it had nothing on it even after the guy said he filmed the whole thing"
Like just what does that mean?
And this..
"Ya people called the police becuase they felt this guy was a nice guy and everything was going just fine."
Like that is really weird
Not on person who was there that night, on the stand said they felt threatened by Robert
"Ya no one ever feels threatened by a man breaking things in a rage."
So wayne are you calling all those people who said they did not feel afraid of Robert LIARS?
Only the cops said after being there for 20 seconds said they were scared.
Todays cop was the second to have the people in the stands laugh at him after saying he was scared
This man yesterday said he did everything that his training said to do.
Today he admitted NOT DOING at least 6 things his training said to do
Seeing as how these cops got away with their lies in the police investigation, it is looking likely,with all the lies exposed, the Polish government will lay charges, as their criminal code allows them to do
Hopeful EH?
tweetypie, 2009-03-03 21:06:48
yes twitpie
They took the camera because they felt it had nothing on it even after the guy said he filmed the whole thing.
Ya people called the police becuase they felt this guy was a nice guy and everything was going just fine. Ya no one ever feels threatened by a man breaking things in a rage.
the only idiot on this chat line is Tweety
wayne, 2009-03-03 20:19:53
Again wayne sillilly says..
"other people felt threatened enough to call the cops in the first place"
Not one person said they felt threatened by this man. NOT ONE Only the brave cops said they were afraid and only after a few seconds.
They called the POLICE because there was a problem.
Not because they were afraid.
Maybe wayne, if he saw a traffic accident would call the police because he was afraid. Most if not all people would call because of a problem
And now this very silly wayne is saying he was going to use the stapler to disarm one of 4 cops of his gun.
Where does this wayne come up with this stuff from?
WHERE?
EH?
tweetypie, 2009-03-03 18:44:54
Some damning admissions today from cop #3
He admitted he knew from his trianing you do not muiltiple tazer someone as it is dangerous,he tazerd him 5 times.You do not continuously hold your finger on the trigger while tazering but yet he did.
You must remove the probes from your victim right away and apply medical help if needed.He did neither.
He knew you are to give verbal warning before firing,but he didnt.
His statement from the night of the killing has been totally discredited.
When asked after he first saw the video if he realized he got it wrong he said yes.
When asked when during the police enquiry and the investigation if he informed ANYONE parts of his statement was wrong, he said no.
But he denied he didnt do so to try and hide his mistakes.
But now knowing he cant be charged he can freely admit to all his mistakes and lies.
Is it any wonder people say cops should not investigate cops.
The police investigation checked into none of these mistatements and failure to follow procedure.
If this video did not exist,these cops would still be sticking to their original made up statements
EH?
tweetypie, 2009-03-03 15:20:42
Sad ending to a simple problem.
Was there excessive force? Only the taser was excessive the rest was typical police work. No punching or kicking.
Did the police officer knowing kill this guy, no.
Do we want them criminally resposnible, I don't.
If we can let real killers out of jail free then the best we can do is offer these officers anger management training.
I saw no anger on display in the video from any of the officers.
All in all very sad and courts will not offer any solution.
Bucadogg, 2009-03-03 13:21:30
Do police rely too heavily on Tasers?
"Hopefully we will see civil suites"
I am quite certain that will be something that will happen.
And the Polish government having the luxery of now knowing of all the lies and misleading statements, and the obvious cover up, are already putting together their case to prosecute these 4 cops
wayne says the fact the cops piled on top of this man, face down after being tazered 5 times also could have led to Roberts death.
NO KIDDING wayne?
You are TOOOO much wayne
EH?
You figured that out all by your self did you?
tweetypie, 2009-03-04 15:32:52
You play dumb whene ever someone answers your questions and show how stupid you are.
Brigand - don't see any cops enjoying themselves in the video, in fact i find them quite serious. Their toys aren't new. They don't like to use them, in fact they would rather not use any weapons or force at all. They would not like to have anyone break the peace or the law, unfortunatley people do, like this man which was why they were called in the first place.
If you read the autopsy report, many medical factors other than the tazor led to this mans death, the tazor just increased the odds that they would be fatal.
In fact his conditions could have also been aggrevated to a death level if he would have resisted physically being restrained like when four cops tackle an unwilling suspect and hold him down while he fights being handcuffed.
Oh somewhat like what happened in hamilton last year when two canadian tire employees tackled a shoplifter and held him until police arrived. He died and no tazor was involved, just the same medical conditions listed by this poor sole.
wayne, 2009-03-04 13:34:13
APPALLING TESTIMONY
"The public gallery now is laughing in disbelief at the RCMP version of events the night Robert Dziekanski was Tasered and died at Vancouver International Airport.
Const. Kwesi Millington, 32, became the third officer Monday to acknowledge his notes, his statements and the report he was required to make after deploying the conducted energy weapon were riddled with errors.
He admitted at the public inquiry into the tragedy that you would have a "distorted view" of the incident if you read his accounts as opposed to viewing an amateur video that captured what happened Oct. 14, 2007.
Millington didn't even get right the number of times he zapped the 40-year-old Polish immigrant with the conducted energy weapon.
After watching the video of Dziekanski screaming in agony, collapsing to the floor writhing in pain, Millington maintained he was justified in jolting him -- again, again, again and again.
The Mountie, who is six-feet-one inch, 205 pounds -- about four inches taller and 30 pounds heavier than Dziekanski -- insisted throughout that he was scared for himself and the safety of his colleagues.
This was the first and only time he has ever used the device.
Like the others, he wore a Kevlar vest, carried a firearm, a baton and pepper spray. Nevertheless, he thought Dziekanski was dangerous.
"He had the stapler open, his other fist raised; he was in a combative stance as we call it, and was approaching the officers, I believe with the intent to attack so I deployed the Taser," Millington said.
"I thought he was going to attack. I acted to stop the threat."
It was an appalling performance by a professional police officer and sparked chortles and guffaws from some in the audience.
Even commission counsel Art Vertlieb seemed incredulous.
Millington is the third of the four RCMP officers who confronted Dziekanski to testify and each has recited a near identical story using similar language that has been shown to be misleading on the same key points.
After the incident, the three were sent to the detachment office where they spent time together without any other officer present before being questioned by investigators looking into Dziekanski's death.
They also got together for a critical incident debriefing Oct. 27, about a fortnight before the video was made public.
Millington, though, said he and the others have not discussed what happened nor did they compare stories before testifying."
"A police officer's notes and his or her ability to clearly remember details of events under pressure are cornerstones of our criminal justice system. Every day, Mounties get up in courtrooms across this country, rely on their notebooks and are granted a degree of credibility not accorded ordinary witnesses.
The testimony of the three officers at this inquiry so far seriously undermines public confidence in that foundation and the reputation of the force.
They have been exposed not for making minor errors in perspective, but for offering worryingly identical and badly distorted views of what occurred.
We expect much, much more from police officers.
His colleagues who testified earlier -- Const. Bill Bentley and Const. Gerry Rundel -- made similar fundamental mistakes in their notes and statements.
In each case, the errors were around critical facts supporting their use of force.
No wonder some in the public gallery were struggling to suppress sniggers. But this is no laughing matter.
The officers maintain they haven't discussed the events with each other, even though they were allowed to return and spend time together at the detachment after the Tasering. As well, two weeks later, they met for a so-called "critical incident debriefing."
"We still haven't heard from the most senior officer involved -- Cpl. Benjamin (Monty) Robinson, who since the Tasering has been charged with drunk driving over an accident in which a motorcyclist died.
Maybe he reported the events around Dziekanski's death more accurately
For the RCMP's sake, I hope so."
Well Monty has already done a good job lieing in his drunk driving case, so I wouldnt expect much truth from him in this inquiry
EH?
tweetypie, 2009-03-04 12:51:59
He said never once did the 4 of them discuss among each other what had happened. Not while they stood around refusing to help Robert as he lay dieing. And not at the two get togethers they had later.
When asked how come all 3 cops who have testified all said Robert had to be wrestled to the ground because he didnt go down after 3 blasts,when in fact he went down on his own after the first shot. he responded..I DONT KNOW
I Cant see this guy CONtinuing as a cop as he is being totally ridiculed in the Van papers and laughed at by the people in the gallery for saying he was afraid
And to think the police enquiry using the lies these cops told,decided no charges would come against them
EH?
tweetypie, 2009-03-04 09:26:03
Brigand, 2009-03-04 09:12:50
You say..
"They took the camera because they felt it had nothing on it even after the guy said he filmed the whole thing"
Like just what does that mean?
And this..
"Ya people called the police becuase they felt this guy was a nice guy and everything was going just fine."
Like that is really weird
Not on person who was there that night, on the stand said they felt threatened by Robert
"Ya no one ever feels threatened by a man breaking things in a rage."
So wayne are you calling all those people who said they did not feel afraid of Robert LIARS?
Only the cops said after being there for 20 seconds said they were scared.
Todays cop was the second to have the people in the stands laugh at him after saying he was scared
This man yesterday said he did everything that his training said to do.
Today he admitted NOT DOING at least 6 things his training said to do
Seeing as how these cops got away with their lies in the police investigation, it is looking likely,with all the lies exposed, the Polish government will lay charges, as their criminal code allows them to do
Hopeful EH?
tweetypie, 2009-03-03 21:06:48
They took the camera because they felt it had nothing on it even after the guy said he filmed the whole thing.
Ya people called the police becuase they felt this guy was a nice guy and everything was going just fine. Ya no one ever feels threatened by a man breaking things in a rage.
the only idiot on this chat line is Tweety
wayne, 2009-03-03 20:19:53
"other people felt threatened enough to call the cops in the first place"
Not one person said they felt threatened by this man. NOT ONE Only the brave cops said they were afraid and only after a few seconds.
They called the POLICE because there was a problem.
Not because they were afraid.
Maybe wayne, if he saw a traffic accident would call the police because he was afraid. Most if not all people would call because of a problem
And now this very silly wayne is saying he was going to use the stapler to disarm one of 4 cops of his gun.
Where does this wayne come up with this stuff from?
WHERE?
EH?
tweetypie, 2009-03-03 18:44:54
He admitted he knew from his trianing you do not muiltiple tazer someone as it is dangerous,he tazerd him 5 times.You do not continuously hold your finger on the trigger while tazering but yet he did.
You must remove the probes from your victim right away and apply medical help if needed.He did neither.
He knew you are to give verbal warning before firing,but he didnt.
His statement from the night of the killing has been totally discredited.
When asked after he first saw the video if he realized he got it wrong he said yes.
When asked when during the police enquiry and the investigation if he informed ANYONE parts of his statement was wrong, he said no.
But he denied he didnt do so to try and hide his mistakes.
But now knowing he cant be charged he can freely admit to all his mistakes and lies.
Is it any wonder people say cops should not investigate cops.
The police investigation checked into none of these mistatements and failure to follow procedure.
If this video did not exist,these cops would still be sticking to their original made up statements
EH?
tweetypie, 2009-03-03 15:20:42
Was there excessive force? Only the taser was excessive the rest was typical police work. No punching or kicking.
Did the police officer knowing kill this guy, no.
Do we want them criminally resposnible, I don't.
If we can let real killers out of jail free then the best we can do is offer these officers anger management training.
I saw no anger on display in the video from any of the officers.
All in all very sad and courts will not offer any solution.
Bucadogg, 2009-03-03 13:21:30